Interview of Sunday Adelaja on Portland's Radio 7 on September 6, 2012

· Analytics, KGB, Kyiv, Portland, Russia, Contemporary Persecution, Security Services, Ukraine, Charismatics

An interesting interview with the famous charismatic Protestant black pastor from Kyiv, Sunday Adelaja, on Portland’s “Radio 7” on September 6, 2012: “…it was precisely after the Orange Revolution that Russia’s FSB or KGB issued a ban on my entry into Russia. The reason they gave was that I am the vanguard of the Orange Revolution. Because of this, Russia made me a persona non grata, and later this came to Ukraine, etc. Imagine: out of the Embassy of God church came a man who became the mayor of Kyiv. And not only did he become mayor—the party based on the Embassy of God received over 30% in the Kyiv City Council—the parliament. Just imagine: they, from a Protestant church, even with a black pastor, control 30% of the city, and even the mayor… Later it was 34%. Even now, if you go online and type in ‘Sunday’—you can do it in English—you will see pictures saying ‘no to the black mayor,’ stating that it is not Chernovetsky ruling the city, but Sunday. Chernovetsky rose very quickly in those days…”

Host: You are undoubtedly a famous person, and your name is surrounded by many contradictory and ambiguous conversations. Unfortunately, I do not know you personally. All I could learn came from the mass media and from some of our mutual acquaintances, and even friends. I am very grateful that you responded to our invitation, and we are now together with you. Opinions and views about you are very diverse, as you know very well. Some fiercely discuss you, some mercilessly criticize you, some try with all their might to defend and justify you. Personally, I am glad that we have the opportunity to meet on the air, to hear straight from your own lips answers to many of the questions that concern our listeners around the world.

I understand that perhaps in this broadcast some questions will be difficult or unpleasant for you, but we must remember and realize that avoiding some questions is also an answer to them. Yet, we hope that you and I will have a good conversation or reach some understanding. And of course, so that our communication does not appear one‑sided, I will try to hold as neutral a position as possible, and we will touch on both positive matters—because I personally believe that whatever difficulties the “Embassy of God” church in Kyiv and you in particular are going through at the moment, still, as a church you have been able to seriously influence the surrounding society and have done no small amount of good work in Kyiv, you have brought many people to God, and that is good. But at the same time, I want to touch on some, to put it mildly, uneasy questions concerning recent events, unfortunately, in the “Embassy of God” church and in your own, if you don’t mind.

Sunday Adelaja: Please do, that is why I am here. If I were against it, I wouldn’t have come. I welcome all kinds of questions, the most tricky ones. It is written: “The righteous are as bold as a lion.” So, you see such a person before you today. Welcome, dear radio listeners! We are glad to hear all your questions. There is every kind of reproach and insult that has already been voiced enough both on the internet and from the lips of people who have no relation to the truth at all.

Host: Looking ahead, I want to personally appeal to you that, even when asking the most difficult questions, I will do so with respect for you, first of all as a person, and secondly as a pastor and minister. Whatever rumors, true or false, exist, I understand that you are a pastor of the church, that you are an anointed minister who has labored in the name of the Lord. Therefore, with respect for you and your ministry, I want you to understand and remember that throughout our whole conversation, I treat you with respect and forbearance. All right?

Sunday Adelaja: Thank you very much, you are very kind. But I want to say that I am not a minister who has served, but one who serves and will continue to serve. It is someone else who has encountered difficulties; we will sort that out later.

Host: Let’s go in order. Although you are a famous, well-known personality, it is possible that not everyone knows your story and the origins of the Embassy of God, so tell us how you ended up in Ukraine. You are a black man and pastor—for Ukraine, that is unique. Not many black people minister in Ukraine.

Sunday Adelaja: Thank you for this opportunity; I am always ready to give explanations to all people who are interested in the truth. I want to compliment you that you dared to reach out to Sunday, and even on the internet, where no one responds. Now you are convinced that I am always ready to answer. It’s just that people tend to live by rumors.

So, concerning your question. Of course, when I lived in Africa, I had never heard the word “Ukraine,” unfortunately. Perhaps that’s because I wasn’t very well-read on the subject, or conversely because Ukraine was little known in its own country, not like now. Thank God that Ukraine is becoming better known, in part thanks to Pastor Sunday. Ukraine acknowledges that thanks to Pastor Sunday it receives more tourists and visitors into the country than through other organizations.

When I was in Africa, I knew about the USSR, and I received a state scholarship and came to study in the Soviet Union. While in Moscow, I was assigned to study in Belarus, in Minsk. I graduated in Minsk. I am a journalist by profession, so I am accustomed to questions and I don’t take offense at questions. I can answer sharply—it depends on the sharpness of the question. But I don’t take offense at all.

After my studies in Belarus, I moved to Ukraine to work as a television journalist. I was one of the first people to begin working in commercial television in this country. We called it “Channel 7”, later “Gravis.” People who lived in the 90s surely know these channels and remember me. Those who lived in Belarus remember me very well, especially those who lived at the end of the eighties and beginning of the nineties. My team and I left a good mark in Belarus.

Host: You started out as a journalist and became a pastor. That’s a huge difference. How did you become a pastor?

Sunday Adelaja: Yes, it is a huge difference. When I worked as a journalist, my spirit was not at peace; as a believer, my spirit was disturbed by what I saw around me. I saw that the country was in darkness. In the 1990s, believers were leaving this country en masse. There were only a few believers, and you could literally feel the darkness over the nation. I felt it was irresponsible not to respond to the country’s primary challenge—which is the Gospel—and to earn money in television at that time. I already knew I would be a preacher, because as a student I had preached the Gospel in Belarus, and I knew I would start a ministry. So it was only a matter of time before God would reveal to me when to begin.

While I worked, I prayed to God, and at one moment I sensed that the time had come. I started inviting people to Bible courses. That was not an easy step or an easy path. Even in America, or in any country, it’s not easy to go out into the street and start inviting people. Especially in Ukraine, where they used to teach that Africans should be pitied because they are very poor. And here an African comes to teach! So I had to walk a very harsh and difficult road. That is proof that Sunday did not send himself to Ukraine; God gave me a vision and understanding of what to do through this church. It was precisely by a word of revelation that we began to build the church. Years later, it’s clear that the church has taken root, and we have been able to do what no one in the country has done to this day.

Host: Why the name “Embassy of God”?

Sunday Adelaja: In 2 Corinthians, chapter 5, verses 18-19, it says that Jesus was reconciling people to God. So we are ambassadors, envoys of Christ, and therefore the church is the “Embassy of God.” If we are envoys, then the church itself is an embassy.

Host: You have a rehabilitation center for drug addicts at your church, and there are fruits from this ministry. Please tell us about it.

Sunday Adelaja: To mention the “Embassy of God” church or Sunday Adelaja and not mention the people who have been set free from drug or alcohol addiction—that would be to say nothing at all. The fact is that these people are the backbone of our church and our ministry. More than 10,000 people have been set free from these addictions. And together with their relatives, more than 42,000 people.

Host: Wow! And these people are in your church, and they serve?

Sunday Adelaja: Yes, but not all of them. There might be about 8–10,000 such people in the church. Most of them actually attend various churches. I think there isn’t a single church in Ukraine that doesn’t have people from the Embassy of God.

Host: I know you have the “Stephania” soup kitchen. Tell us about that ministry.

Sunday Adelaja: Once I was reading the Bible and saw how Jesus fed the hungry. I discovered that God wasn’t just telling me a story; He was showing me how we should respond to the needs around us. It’s not right to call ourselves Christians, go to bed, while at the same time someone hungry goes to bed. And I made a vow to God that in the city where I live, nobody should go to bed hungry. I discussed this in the Spiritual Council, and one of our pastors—Pastor Tope—took on solving this issue. At the same time, wealthy people started coming to our church. One banker undertook to finance this project with three meals a day and began giving his tithe for this project. We opened a public organization, to which he transfers the money, and we provide the ministry with people. That’s how this ministry began. In the first 5 years, we fed 2 million people.

Host: Wow! Wow! That’s a huge number! Officially, 2 million people live in Kyiv.

Sunday Adelaja: Officially, 4 million live here, but in reality people came from all over the country.

Host: What other large churches or unions of Christians in Ukraine do you actively cooperate with? Do you have any joint projects or events?

Sunday Adelaja: We worked closely with the Pentecostal Union when their bishop was Nikolai Adamovich Melnik. When the leadership changed, that cooperation fell apart. But there are many independent churches. One of them, where Sergei Yakovlev is—it’s a Protestant apostolic church—we are friends with them. There is Pastor Gennady Makarovich of the “Brotherly Love” church—we have joint projects with them. We also cooperate and are friends with a Baptist church where Pastor Roman Ovcharenko is, with the “Victory” church (Pastor Henry Madava), and many other churches.

Host: Do you have formal church membership, or are people simply parishioners?

Sunday Adelaja: Unfortunately, we don’t have membership. We tried to introduce it, but people resisted because they associated it with membership in the Communist Party. Nevertheless, we keep track of the number of people who attend and who come to a home group each week.

Host: So you can contact someone if they suddenly stop attending church?

Sunday Adelaja: Yes, we have the contact details of everyone who comes to us. We have more than 2 million people who repented and filled out forms in the first 8 years. But when I mention that, I am not implying that these are all church members. I’m simply using these facts to show how people come to God. Many people moved to other churches, and many stopped attending anywhere altogether.

Today the numbers are much higher, but these are all people who have repented. We found that many come only to the senior pastor’s Sunday sermons, and we don’t count them. We only count those who attend the worship service and home groups. Before the crisis, there were 26,000 such people. The last time we counted recently, we had 14,200. We have lost many people.

Host: How many people can your church building accommodate?

Sunday Adelaja: This is a specific feature of our church. Often, because of this, many rumors arise. People may come and see 1,000 or 500 people in the church. But there is an important point to take into account. I am the founder of the church and the senior pastor. At the beginning, I preached myself, because others were simply disciples. I had to lead three services a day, each lasting three hours. I was very energetic back then; I was 27, and I preached like that until I was 30. At that time, we gathered in the Korolev Palace of Culture, about a thousand people; our church was three to four years old. Back then I realized: “Man, don’t destroy yourself, or you might end up disabled.” I decided to pray to God for the Lord to show me how to handle the situation, because people kept coming. And then the Lord impressed upon my heart to “multiply, duplicate” myself. I formed a group, gathering the most promising people from my congregation, and began to train them more intensively than other leaders, and a year later we got started.

There was another reason why I took this step. Because of the church’s rapid growth, people began to say very flattering words about me: “Oh, this is Pastor Sunday! This is his church! Miracles happen there!” I was grieved that people were talking about me and not seeing Christ. I begged God: “Either remove me, or do something.” Then the Lord told me: “You need to multiply yourself so you are not the only star.” And that’s when I divided the church. Today there are 25 churches in Kyiv, and my pastors hold services simultaneously in 25 halls.

Host: Pastor Sunday, you’ve touched on the topic of a star, and your conversation unsettles me, and I’ll tell you why. The other day I watched recordings of your services: I saw people who came on stage and exalted you as a father, knelt down, kissed your hand, and I observed your reaction. I don’t quite understand all of this. Please comment. One woman came up to you, calling you father, almost praying to you and saying that you give them life. As a Christian who knows that our life depends only on God, it was, at the very least, unpleasant to hear.

Sunday Adelaja: If you want to be completely objective, you should have watched this service to the end.

Host: I did watch it. I understand it was a teaching on fatherhood, on respecting elders and parents. I am speaking with that whole context in mind.

Sunday Adelaja: Oh, that was important to mention! It should have been noted who and what that service was about: about Christ or about Pastor Sunday.

Host: That’s what troubles me—that, from the outside, I saw that in the context, your name was mentioned more, unfortunately. Maybe you didn’t intend it, but I saw a huge emphasis, a great deal of attention. I’m not against people loving their pastor, but in this situation, when people bow their knees and kiss hands… I know what happened with the apostle Paul, when people regarded him as a god and bowed before him, and he said: “I am a man just like you.”

Sunday Adelaja: Alright, that was one service. And at others, did you see that Christ was at the center?

Host: Yes, I did.

Sunday Adelaja: Therefore, if you evaluate it, it’s very important to be objective in the context not of one service, but of all the services of the Embassy of God. Of course, if Pastor Sunday were the lord of the “Embassy of God” church, then, firstly, what is happening now would not be happening; God would have turned His face away already. God does not bring people to a place where His name is not exalted. But He saves them precisely through Sunday’s ministry. Even in this service you will see that, nevertheless, people speak about God and worship Him the most. Only the emotional expression of people cannot be stopped. I am very much against the worship of a person; that is not the style of our ministry. But precisely because that was the sermon, seeing how a person is broken and grateful, it would have been inappropriate on my part to stop people. People are different and express their emotions in different ways. But if you come the next day, you won’t see this anymore.

Another question for you: if we talk about such an attitude—that they bowed before a person—can you say that you are seeing this for the first time, someone bowing before a person? I, for instance, bow before my wife; I do it constantly …

Host: But you don’t do it on stage…

Sunday Adelaja: On stage as well. Evgeniy, if you want to be completely truthful, at that service when we celebrated our 18th wedding anniversary, I knelt before my wife. There are photos on the site; you can go and look right now. There you will see not a woman kneeling before Sunday, but Sunday kneeling before a woman. Just as someone knelt before me on stage, so do I. For me, it’s nothing out of the ordinary.

Host: I understand, alright. And where does the line lie for you personally between worship and service to God, and a cult of personality?

Sunday Adelaja: The same line as for the apostle Paul. People began to worship him as a god, and not only that if you read carefully. They even gave them divine names. But here it’s not like that—people gave thanks, and it doesn’t matter what they did in the process. But I want to say that even in traditional churches, in Pentecostal and Baptist churches (according to their own people), there is even more reverence toward pastors there than in our church. If you spend time in our church, you will see there is too much freedom. This is a free church. There are also different cultures, if we talk about someone kneeling. For example, in Yonggi Cho’s church, they bow before the elder, before pastors, before people they honor, and kiss hands. And not only there. In Africa, for example. Even in Ukraine, this exists, and not only in the Orthodox or Catholic church. That’s what people do—what can you do.

Host: Pastor Sunday, in your opinion, are there things that are impermissible for a pastor as a minister, aside from sin, of course? For example, something that an ordinary person would get away with, but a pastor should not do.

Sunday Adelaja: Of course, there are loads of such things, there are a million things a pastor should not do! I don’t even know where to begin.

Host: You preach prosperity teaching in your church?

Sunday Adelaja: No, I don’t believe in that at all. That’s another legend about Pastor Sunday, precisely from people who don’t know me or know me poorly. I’m very sorry for such distortion. I’m deeply saddened that this happens. On the contrary, I wrote a book that came out in English in America — “Money Won’t Make You Rich.” In the first chapter I attack the prosperity teaching, I don’t believe in the prosperity gospel doctrines. I believe in something else — teaching people financial literacy and helping them understand how to start their own business, giving them knowledge about diligence, about work, not the way they teach in America: give your tithe, offerings, and that’s it. No, you need to teach people to work, teach them a profession, teach them to think, give them an education.

Host: Yes, I’ve seen recordings of the services where you told people that you want them to be financially secure, to live well. Kings Capital emerged. You contributed, as it were, you taught people to use their apartments, their money to help themselves financially, to earn a profit.

Sunday Adelaja: Yes, that happened too. Kings Capital emerged before I began teaching about it. It emerged in 2006, and I started teaching about it in 2007. But I don’t deny that I actually taught about investing, about how a person can use their money and apartments to earn more money. But Kings Capital did not emerge because of that.

Host: I understand, but isn’t this a lesson that within church walls it is not worthwhile to promote a specific company from the pulpit? Perhaps you can preach about financial principles, but maybe promoting specific financial structures is a good lesson to leave that idea aside?

Sunday Adelaja: Yes, well done, Evgeny! But again I see from you that you are a victim of the media. You show a clear prejudice, you are already programmed.

Host: I honestly warned you that I know all the information about you from the mass media.

Sunday Adelaja: You and all your listeners prove that I promoted one particular company. Nonsense! Nothing of the kind happened. I taught exactly what you yourself said: financial principles, financial philosophy. I have 200 recordings about the culture of saving, the culture of multiplying, how to protect your finances, etc. There are 2,000 companies in our church. If I promote one, how do you think the others would feel? They would have left the church or stoned me. And those who now say I did that, pardon me, are not thinking with their heads. I do not deny that Kings Capital was spoken about in our church. For four years, the law enforcement agencies of Ukraine have been checking and cannot prove the assertion that I advertised Kings Capital in the church.

Host: I saw a video…

Sunday Adelaja: You saw a video where I said that people, on the contrary, must be cautious even regarding Kings Capital itself and other companies.

Host: But I saw recordings where you stood in support alongside the Kings Capital team, who were explaining their structure, how it all works, and you also spoke good words about them, and from your lips came the name “Kings Capital.” I saw that.

Sunday Adelaja: That video is right here with me now. Of course, the name was mentioned, I brought these people onto the stage and asked them to show their evidence, how they collect the money. You need to watch the full video. I asked them to show people the insurance, the guarantee that they would get their money back. And I did the same with the other 10 companies as well.

Host: In light of recent events, tell us about the company Mannatech, about its products on the stage. That is advertising.

Sunday Adelaja: What does advertising consist of? Have you ever heard someone from the pulpit talk about the Coca-Cola company? When have you heard someone during a sermon talk about Belarusian cheese? Or about an Apple computer? About the iPad or iPod?

Host: What do you mean?

Sunday Adelaja: Have you heard some preacher during a sermon mention that he has an iPad?

Host: I understand your point, it happens: “I was driving in my car and drinking a Coca-Cola.”

Sunday Adelaja: Exactly! Advertising is something completely different. I know how to do advertising.

Host: You believe that when 5,000 people are sitting in front of you and you talk about dietary supplements, about good health, and if accidentally…

Sunday Adelaja: Not accidentally. I tell the truth, about facts that I know. That doesn’t mean it’s advertising. If I had said, “Everybody go and join this company, it costs such and such…,” that would be advertising.

Host: Many English-language Western websites have articles describing your situation in Ukraine, that you are subjected to ethnic, political discrimination and persecution. They very vividly emphasize the idea that you actively participated in the presidential elections in support of V. Yushchenko and the Orange Revolution. By the way, I was there in those years as well and know the situation from the inside. Do you think that your participation somehow influenced the event that is now happening to you? I mean the oppression coming from the authorities, as you say.

Sunday Adelaja. No, I don’t think so. I think the events of the Orange Revolution involved not just me and our church. I participated to a lesser extent; more so the church members, because they are citizens of Ukraine. They went out to the square, just like members of other churches. I don’t think all the persecution now is because of that. I think everything that’s happening now is undoubtedly political persecution, but I don’t think it’s because of the Orange Revolution. Although, partly, maybe, especially if it has a Russian tinge, because it was precisely after the Orange Revolution that Russia’s FSB or KGB issued a ban on my entry into Russia. The reason they cited was that I was the vanguard of the Orange Revolution. Because of that, Russia made me a persona non grata, and then that came to Ukraine, etc.

Host. And what started the attempts at criminal, not just administrative, prosecution? Who benefits from this, who needs it?

Sunday Adelaja. Of course, it’s obvious to everyone who lives in Ukraine. It’s no secret. Imagine that a man who became mayor of Kyiv emerged from the Embassy of God church. And not only did he become mayor, but the party that was based on the Embassy of God received more than 30% in the Kyiv City Council — the parliament. Picture it: they, from a Protestant church, with a black pastor even, control 30% of the city, and the mayor on top of that… And then it was 34%.

Even now, if you go online and search for “Sunday,” you can do it in English too, you’ll see images saying “no to a black mayor,” saying that it’s not Chernovetsky who rules the city, but Sunday. Nationalists attacked us, surrounded our building, chanted various slogans, and so on.

Chernovetsky rose very quickly in those times, so they organized a second election – they decided something wasn’t right, said he was feeding people. Meaning that cafeteria we talked about earlier.

Host. That was attributed to Leonid Chernovetsky. So who was feeding them then?

Sunday Adelaja. He provided the finances for the cafeteria, and we provided the people.

Host. And what is your relationship with the ex-mayor now? Has he remained a parishioner of the Embassy of God church? And one more question: in my view, why was the administrative resource so weakly used during Chernovetsky’s time in power to support the Embassy of God? It’s no secret, I myself lived in Ukraine, the use of power, of one’s position in Ukraine — that’s quite normal. You didn’t build any buildings, you didn’t make any serious breakthroughs, materialistic ones…

Sunday Adelaja. First of all, this once again proves that we are not as cunning as people think. We are not that corrupt; we are Christians. We are Christians who try to live according to the Bible, like everyone else. I had the opportunity to take 10 hectares in this city, to build a building. But that would have been through improper actions. What’s the need? I actually advised Chernovetsky, “As long as you’re mayor, nothing of the kind, so that it wouldn’t be a temptation either for you or for the church.”

Host. Good. I like your position; it’s just like mine! You think using administrative resources in power is bad. But what about using administrative resources to protect the church pastor, to earn money, to propagate political views, financial structures? That’s also partly the same topic, isn’t it?

Sunday Adelaja. Administrative resource is when it’s at the expense of the state, of the state taxpayers. Something that belongs to the people is used by a certain group of people for their own interests.

Host. Yes. And I’m speaking in terms of the church.

Sunday Adelaja. Now let me speak in terms of the church. In the church, this doesn’t happen because the pastor built the churches, and we are a community, a collective that shares common views. Every member of the church can come up onto our stage and advertise themselves, their company. We practice this constantly in our church. This goes for the case of Kings Capital. I’m not denying that advertisements were voiced, not only theirs, but others as well. Anyone can come onto the stage and talk about their activities. So if that is considered an administrative resource, it is used not only by the pastor but also by other members of the church. Every Baptist and Pentecostal church I know supports someone in elections.

Host. But that’s wrong, Pastor Sunday. The church is not a political structure. It’s a spiritual structure that should care about the spiritual rebirth of a person. And when words about network or non-network businesses, about some political battles, elections, come from the pulpit… I think that’s not entirely right.

Sunday Adelaja. Yes, that’s your view and you have the right to it. But I have a completely different view.

Host. What is it?

Sunday Adelaja. You can’t live in society and be free from that society. Just because a person is a Christian doesn’t mean he ceases to be a citizen of the country, ceases to eat. If a person is a Christian, comes to church, prays, and leaves, that’s not the whole of his life. No. I can be a church pastor and at the same time I am a father and a husband. It’s the same way in society. I promote that every church member, every Christian, must take responsibility for the society where he lives. He must bring salvation to that society, to bring God into politics, into the economy, into business — into all spheres of society. That’s why you work on the radio. That’s how you bring the Kingdom of God. So it is in the church. The fact that a person is a believer doesn’t make him a downtrodden zombie, as if he only prays and that’s all.

Host. I agree with you. On a personal level, we’ve also done many programs here, and within church walls we also say that we are not only believers but also citizens of the country, we are father and mother to someone, and we must fulfill some of our civic duties, go to the polls, influence our society. But that is on a personal level. But should the church be some kind of organized political movement?

Sunday Adelaja. I agree with you. The church shouldn’t be like that. But the members of the church should. For me, the church is not a building; the church is the people. The church as a building or organization should not get involved in politics and business. And our church does not engage in business or politics, but the members of the church – they certainly do!

Host. But when words of support for one candidate or another are spoken from the pulpit in church, what is that if not advertising or promotion of that candidate? That is the whole church’s participation in political life.

Sunday Adelaja. Yes, that is possible. For example, we have a church member who is running for the Verkhovna Rada and was in church last Sunday. We called her up to the platform, prayed for her, blessed her, because she is a member of our church. Whether this is right or wrong – let each church decide this within itself. In our church, we believe that we can and should bless. If someone thinks this is wrong, I can find you in the Bible where the first Christians were forming home groups even in Caesar’s palace. They sent greetings to those who were in Caesar’s palace. They used the Bible, the Holy Scriptures, to write about politics there, to pray and bless the one leading a home group with Caesar.

Paul spoke about Agrippa. Agrippa was a king and spoke about Christ right from the podium, he preached. If God was not ashamed to do this, then neither are we ashamed to do it. Thanks to the active stance of Christians, America, where you live, was built.

Host. Yes.

Sunday Adelaja. In every church, mainly Republicans speak. The whole country lives by this.

Host. Well, it’s one thing when we evangelize within the walls of parliament or somewhere in high-level structures. I once even saw, long ago, how you were invited to the USA and prayed in Congress before a session. Am I mistaken?

Sunday Adelaja. In the Senate.

Host. Yes, in the Senate, which is part of Congress. I’m not against that. But when you prayed for Yanukovych, you said it was from the Lord. I heard and saw your prayer. You directly promoted him! You said you believe, this is power from the Lord, these people, when they come to power, will change this country. Then something didn’t work out. Then our dreams and desires for this political force bring disappointment. Maybe this is a lesson for us that perhaps we shouldn’t poke our noses into politics. If you want, vote privately for whoever you want, pray for the authorities. But when we involve the entire church structure in this and become disappointed, then we can end up, as you say: persecution from the authorities begins. Look, you were involved in the work with Leonid Chernovetsky, he represented the city government. Now he is not in power, and the church begins to reap the fruits of work where it shouldn’t have been working. That’s my opinion.

Sunday Adelaja. I agree with you that there is such a thing. But it also brings a lot of good. As for supporting Yanukovych, I do not regret it. I didn’t support him as a structure, as the “Embassy of God” church. We prayed, and I said what I know: he will win. I knew he would be the President of Ukraine. I didn’t just say it; I had grounds for it. I am a believer, I communicate with God. You can treat this as you like – you may believe or not – but I had three dreams, I saw in them, I had revelations that this particular man would be the next President of Ukraine, even though all the believers were against it. And everyone thought it wouldn’t happen. Not only did I receive revelations three times that he would be President, but that we, as a Protestant force, must go and cooperate with him. If what was done had not been done, it would have been worse not only for us but for many others. Even though I am being tried under this government, I still do not regret that we did it, because I know that if we hadn’t done it, things wouldn’t be any better for us.

Host. You were awarded a certificate from the President. I would like to read this certificate, if I may.

Sunday Adelaja. Yes.

Host. “Sunday Adelaja, I sincerely thank you for your participation in the 2010 presidential campaign. Your selfless labor, high sense of duty, and civic stance shown in the difficult conditions of political confrontation became the main guarantee of our victory. I extremely highly value your support and assistance and hope for the successful continuation of our joint work on the path to establishing Ukraine as a strong, prosperous state, a Ukraine for people.” You accepted this gratitude; please comment on this occurrence.

Sunday Adelaja. Yes, I accepted the certificate and gratitude not only from the current President of Ukraine, V. Yanukovych, but I also have a similar certificate from the previous President, V. Yushchenko. This is because our people truly exhibit an active civic stance. And, despite the things that are happening now, I want to remind all radio listeners that this case against me was not initiated under this government. It was initiated by Mr. Lutsenko, who was in the previous government with Tymoshenko. Everything that is happening to us now is a continuation of what was launched then. And the certificates, the expressions of gratitude, exist because, as I have said, our people – not as a church but as citizens of Ukraine – participate very actively in the social and political life of the country.

Host. Specific people were recognized, including you. Each of you received these awards separately as church leaders.

Sunday Adelaja. That is true. But they also fulfilled their civic duties.

Host. Let’s move a little to King’s Capital. Pastor Sunday, may I ask you what might be an unpleasant question? Our radio listeners have been pestering me. Everyone is very interested in what house or palace – they call your house a palace – you live in, and where you got the money to build such a house. It seems to them that as a pastor you live very richly.

Sunday Adelaja. That is a very good question. If you come to Ukraine, I am ready to welcome you at my home.

Host. Will you receive me?!

Sunday Adelaja. Yes, yes, as a guest and as a journalist, so that you can see how I live. But, before I had a house, nobody noticed how I lived with 3 children on the 20th floor in a 2-room apartment, where water runs down the walls, mold on the walls. I lived there for 14 years, enduring everything. And not because there was no other opportunity. I lived there on principle. As for the house where I live now: trust journalists less, trust the internet less.

Host. But can you believe me?

Sunday Adelaja. You? When you come, then you can believe. And why? I don’t live in a palace, I don’t live in a mansion, as they say. I indeed built two huge houses with a total area of 2,000 sq. m. But one of these houses is entirely dedicated to church members – this is the uniqueness of Pastor Sunday and the Embassy of God. Many can’t understand this. Imagine, even now as I’m talking to you, 150 people are living here. Any person, ask the members of the Embassy of God church, can come here and stay for 3 days or more. I live with my family in one house on the top floor, we live in one of the apartments in this house. The lower floors are given to people.

Host. You know, this is huge news to me! Indeed, I didn’t know that and I just have a human question: why is this not on the air? Why is this not covered?

Sunday Adelaja. Go to YouTube or the Embassy of God website right now and find “The Secret Life of Pastor Sunday.” You’ll see an interview showing how people live in my house. It’s all there.

Host. Well, an interview is one thing. I want to see…

Sunday Adelaja. I mean that the camera shows the house. They interview those who live in the house. There are several episodes.

Host. You know, you mentioned that video, I saw that it exists, but I thought it was just another video that blackens your secret life. I simply didn’t watch it because there are so many videos against you that I said “enough, I’ve already seen enough.” It turns out it’s a positive video that debunks the “mystique” around you. Thank you for telling me, I’ll definitely watch it.

I’d like to continue and talk about your connection with Kings Capital. The organizers of this company were or are parishioners of your church. As far as I know, according to the latest data, 5 of them are in custody. How do you think, why are you still free, given that you are suspected of involvement in the financial machinations of Kings Capital? What kind of relationships did you have with the leaders of this company?

Sunday Adelaja. They not only consider me involved in this company, they consider me the main suspect and accuse me of creating a criminal organization. Those who were imprisoned are supposedly those whom I involved in the company. According to the court case, they are not the leaders of the company, but Sunday is. And those are just his victims. So the question arises: if Sunday is the main suspect, why is he free, while those who are victims are sitting in jail? It’s clear: you have to find grounds, evidence to implicate Sunday in this. The whole country has been investigating this case for 3-4 years and can’t prove my involvement. That’s why I’m so calmly giving interviews with you now, and also at other times. The righteous are as bold as a lion. Not only does God in heaven know that I did not participate in the creation of the company, nor in its management, much less its finances. So on earth, to prove otherwise, one has to invent something, twist things. Of course, our country is a wonderland, anything is possible, but in principle, what never happened is hard to prove, even if someone says he proved it. You know, a lie can travel at 1000 km/h, but truth can overcome it in 5 seconds. Truth always conquers any lie.

Host. And what were your relationships with the management of Kings Capital? Did you know each other well?

Sunday Adelaja. Regarding the relationships with the management of Kings Capital. Let me say again that this was not the only company in our church. There are more than 2,000 companies owned by members of our church. Kings Capital was one of those companies. One of the founders of that company was indeed a church member…

Host. Who is that?

Sunday Adelaja. Alexander Safonov.

Host. And the rest were not parishioners of the church?

Sunday Adelaja. No. The fact is that there is another founder of this company – Alexander Bandurchenko. He was supposedly a member of another church in Crimea, “Word of Life,” and graduated from Ulf Ekman’s Bible school in Moscow, then came to Kyiv to start a new business. He was a bank employee in Crimea, then came to Kyiv. When he came here to Kyiv, he needed money. I know this now, but I didn’t know it then. He found Safonov, who was one of our youth ministers; people knew him well because he had been going to church for more than 10 years. He wasn’t a businessman. But as it turns out, they had this agreement: Bandurchenko told Safonov, “You bring people, you have tons of them, you won’t have any problems with people. You bring those responsible for attracting investments, and I will manage the company.” Therefore, the head of this company is not even that brother from our church, but because of him our people got into the company.

Host. I saw A. Bandurchenko’s video blog, where he tells from his side how it all started and how the Embassy of God church got involved in Kings Capital. He claims that you came to him with two some people, financiers, offering their services, and if he accepted these services and they were on the team, you would promote them, advertise within the walls of the Embassy of God church. Comment on this fact, as people see this video blog. How do you view this situation? Was it really like that or not?

Sunday Adelaja. Very well. Indeed, what you are now describing did happen, but not at the beginning of the company. What Bandurchenko is talking about occurred later—on the eve of the company’s collapse. What he is saying is still not entirely accurate. The company began to develop rapidly and became popular. Many of our people started coming to me and asking: “Pastor, how are they going to pay such high interest? That’s too high. Find out from them what they are doing. And what if this real estate stops selling? etc.” Personally, I think it’s a normal stance, if such a thing is happening in my church, they are attracting people from the church. So I called the pastor—we have a youth pastor who was over Safonov. He now lives in America; his name is Eduard Belous. You can find him and ask him all the questions. He was the one who brought Safonov and was his pastor. He was my direct assistant. I summoned him and said: “What is going on? Is Safonov your man? Under you?” He replied that it was so. And then I asked him and another girl to find out what this company does, how confident we can be that people won’t lose their money.

And that video you mentioned, it was precisely then I decided: that’s it, go on stage and reassure people, assure them that they will not lose their money, tell them how you insure your business. It was purely out of a desire to protect people. But then the media interpreted it as advertising. It’s frustrating, very frustrating when believers and people who are not in the know also perceive it as advertising. In reality, I wanted them to tell people what they do, to assure them that they would not lose their money. They talked about various precautionary measures they had already put in place. That’s on the one hand.

On the other hand, Eduard Belous organized these meetings so that the people and I would go to that company and have those two Sashas come to my office to explain what they were doing. Only after that did we go on stage with them so they could talk about their activities and that people would not lose their money. I began to worry because people started worrying about their money.

Host. What year was it when you were on stage and the person was drawing a structure…?

Sunday Adelaja. 2007. The fact that the person was drawing a structure—that was a completely different picture, don’t confuse them.

Host. Did you personally lose money? Did you personally invest money in the Kings Capital company?

Sunday Adelaja. No, I told people that such high interest rates were unrealistic, dangerous, too risky.

Host. Pastor Sunday, a very serious question arises: you, as a church pastor, stand on stage—let’s proceed from the position that I believe you, I am a Christian, you are a Christian, I am an optimist, I believe you. You stand in the church at the pulpit, you worry about your people, that they might indeed fall into big money, you show by your own example that you are not investing in this company, you are worried, and at the same time more than 600 people of the Embassy of God church invest money borrowed against their apartments from banks into this structure. There seems to be no logic, why did this happen? Maybe your influence or concern was not clear enough for your people? Why did this happen?

Sunday Adelaja. I told them that I do not invest money there, I said it in church. Only one person from the church came to me—Alexander Derzhanovsky—and said he wanted to invest money there. I told him: “Don’t invest money there.”

Host. And when did you tell people that you are not investing money in Kings Capital?

Sunday Adelaja. Go on the Internet…

Host. Tell me, what year was that?

Sunday Adelaja. 2007.

Host. In 2007 did you say from the stage: “I am not investing money in Kings Capital”?

Sunday Adelaja. No, I just told people. On stage I said something different: “Go and take your money, if there is no guarantee, check the contracts. Don’t put money in just because they attend church. That alone is not a reason to put money there.”

Host. Well, that wasn’t in 2007, that was later, right? In 2007 you believed in the Kings Capital company.

Sunday Adelaja. Maybe. There was a time when I believed. Maybe at the beginning of 2007 I believed. But I believe everyone. It is a bad pastor who does not believe his members. How could I have known that something would go wrong with them? I believed people, of course I do. If I didn’t believe, I wouldn’t have tolerated it for a single day. It was already at the end, when people started telling me, I wanted them to prove to us that people would not lose money.

Host. Did you learn any lesson from this?

Sunday Adelaja. I think the lesson I learned is that not all people, and not only from Kings Capital, but people in society in general, don’t really think.

Host. Well, that is evident. They hear and just do it, they don’t think.

Sunday Adelaja. Yes. And people believe more in their friends, in the fact that they want to get a benefit now, that they are being paid. They said they were being paid, and I also saw that they were paid. There are arguments for it. What I have been teaching since 1997, you can see it—check things (these are business laws), get insurance. People listen selectively, to what they want to hear.

My main lesson—people hear what lives in them, what they have inside. People do not see reality. That is the most important lesson. My main lesson is not that this happened with Kings Capital, not that I taught about finances—I will continue to teach about finances, I still teach about finances—but that I have come to know people better.

My second mistake, maybe I shouldn’t say it, but I will: when people went and checked this company (now Bandurchenko says that they are guilty and that I sent people to them and because of them the company collapsed), at that time there was another option. The security forces, military, and people in the church said: “To protect yourself, file applications against them in advance, that is, get ahead of events, turn them in, in short…”

Host. Did they tell you this?

Sunday Adelaja. Yes, of course. It was in the version they themselves know. I said I would never go along with that, I cannot write denunciations against people. But they said they could turn everything against me. I said, how could that be turned against me? I was naive. It was a mistake. I believed that people wouldn’t turn against me, they know I wasn’t in the know, I had nothing to do with it. I thought they were normal people. No, people want to save their own skin. There are no normal people when it comes to saving one’s own skin.

And if I had written against them then, they would have been shut down and I would be “white and fluffy.” But now I think I still wouldn’t have gone through with it. I would rather go through such suffering as now—to be tried, to be shamed like this before the whole country—than to write a denunciation to the police against even one person who was a member of my church.

Host. Pastor Sunday, I think it would be good to take a lesson. I believe you realize it from the situation with King’s Capital. You understand what a huge influence you have on congregants. Perhaps you truly were not involved with King’s Capital, but even your positive attitude toward this company was a guarantee for many that they were doing the right thing. I have heard many interviews with church members where they said they simply believed that you were positively disposed toward King’s Capital, they even signed papers without reading them because they trusted you.

Sunday Adelaja. But, you know, when people have to save their own skin, when it’s a matter of self-interest, people will say anything.

Host. But these are ordinary people.

Sunday Adelaja. If I had told them to go and put money there, not one will say that I told them such a thing from the stage or personally. But I know why they said it: because one of the owners of the company is a church member. Because of that, there really was a factor of trust among church members. I admit that. And the fact that there really were announcements, advertisements—we call them testimonies—made by employees of this company from our pulpit, but not by me.

Host. But you were sitting there, you allowed these people to come onto the stage; without your permission nothing happens on the stage, you understand?

Sunday Adelaja. Yes, I’m not denying it. I just told you—I believed everything was fine. I believed them as I believed everyone. Now we can talk like this when something went wrong. They paid people money for three years, and no one ever thought that anything would go wrong!

Host. Just yesterday I received information that when huge loans were taken out, and people who had no material money but had apartments and houses took loans from the bank against collateral. In some cases, there was falsification of documents—incorrect financial status, profits.

Sunday Adelaja. You are now saying very correct things. How could a pastor know about this? How can the pastor of a 20,000-strong church know what is going on? I also heard about it later. And when I heard about it, I knelt down before the church and said: “Is this happening in our church?” It also happened in other churches: Pentecostal, Baptist. But in reality, this is greed.

Host. You didn’t know about this when it was happening?

Sunday Adelaja. No, I tell you before God! How can I know that?!

Host. The question is settled, Pastor Sunday. I believe you.

Sunday Adelaja. When I found out about this, I got on my knees and repented before God that such people go to church. And they still call themselves believers? One must have the fear of God! But that’s not the point.

Host. I understand.

Sunday Adelaja. Let me tell you also about the collateral. About 640 people filed claims that they lost money in King’s Capital. Of them, only 12 people mortgaged their apartments. That’s because when it comes to apartments, you have to prove, show documents, and so on. Those talks that circulate on the internet, excuse me please, are people who have manipulated the situation to arouse anger and resentment among people. But in reality, there was no such mass mortgaging of apartments. I personally do not know a single person from our church who mortgaged an apartment. Only about 100 of the 640 who suffered are from the Embassy of God church. The rest are non-believers. And they forget about that, saying that only church members invested money there. That is not right. Others only read about King’s Capital in newspapers, saw ads in the subway, there were billboards in the city, on internet portals, on national television. You can come to Ukraine and attend the court; for the most part, people from the church come to defend, not to accuse.

Host. Pastor Sunday, does your church care for those 100 people who lost money in King’s Capital? If so, in what way?

Sunday Adelaja. I must say that more people from our church lost money. About 100 filed claims that they suffered. The rest took responsibility upon themselves, saying, “What does the pastor have to do with it?” They believe that they themselves did something wrong.

We, of course, help people, especially at the beginning, when this first happened. We set up an Anti-Crisis Committee where we provided professional financial and legal services. Our people from morning till evening gave consultations, fed people, bought medicine for those who were ill, helped pay rent for some. For some elderly people, privately, we even helped recover their money.

Host. I am aware of at least 5 people who committed suicide because they lost money invested in King’s Capital. Were these people members of the Embassy of God or not?

Sunday Adelaja. I don’t know of a single case. I have heard that believers say so, but no one can confirm it.

Host. Is this issue raised in court?

Sunday Adelaja. Of course not! Those are only rumors, unsubstantiated by facts. If a person did that solely because of the company “Kings Capital”, then there should be a receipt from him stating that. Then that would be grounds. Anyone can come to that conclusion.

Host. But, well, you don’t have to be a very experienced investigator to understand: if a person borrowed $100,000 against collateral, saw that he lost it, and a few days later committed suicide, then the motives are easy to figure out. You don’t have to be a very experienced specialist, you understand?

Sunday Adelaja. There is no such fact.

Host. Ah, so that’s just rumors?

Sunday Adelaja. Yes, I don’t know of any.

Host. Another tricky question people ask, citing information on the internet: if you have accounts and real estate in the USA. Please comment on this.

Sunday Adelaja. Yes, I have an account – a credit card, because at one time I couldn’t use a Ukrainian card. Every time I was abroad around the world, I had some problems with the Ukrainian card: sometimes I had to call, sometimes check something. So I opened an account in America, as anyone can do. As of today, it’s only a couple thousand. That can be verified.

I know that in Ukraine it is written that they found three accounts, that I have $15 million in them, that there’s $35,000 in the accounts. I made an open statement on the internet that if anyone finds such an account, let them provide it. Then we discovered that one politician from the city of Vishnevoe wrote that. Now in that city, the deputy mayor is a member of our church. His opponent before the elections decided to smear him in this way, made up such a story. That has already been proven.
What I have, I do not hide: it’s a normal account, with a couple thousand dollars.

As for an apartment: yes, there is a house, bought on credit, for which I still have to pay $100,000. They even froze it when the crisis began. We paid every month, like everyone does. I am not hiding anything.

Host. Such an immodest, but purely human question: why do you need a house in the USA?

Sunday Adelaja. Because, first, my child was born in America and has American citizenship. The child needs registration there, where various papers come. That’s one reason.

Another reason — because we have a ministry in America. At one time we had more than 20 churches, and I traveled to America every month. I needed it.

Host. Pastor Sunday, all people make mistakes. I am sure that you also make mistakes.

Sunday Adelaja. Yes, absolutely! The more active, the more mistakes one makes.

Host. Have you had mistakes for which you repented before people from the pulpit in church?

Sunday Adelaja. Yes, often. Today I told you about one such case. For the collapse of Kings Capital I repented, it’s on the internet – you can search for “Sunday repentance”. It’s not at all difficult for me to do, the crown doesn’t fall off my head, as they say.

There were also smaller mistakes, and I take them and repent. For me, repentance is the path to forgiveness, the path of atonement.
A man came to me, a friend from Sweden, and said that he spoke with one of the pastors in Kyiv, and that pastor said that the most terrible thing is that Sunday does not repent. I asked him: “Do you have a computer? Open it right now.” He opened it and found 200 articles. It’s not a secret! Even secular newspapers write that Pastor Sunday pointed to Kings Capital, that maybe because of this a shadow fell on the church. I’ll repent even now.

Host. How do you relate to those people, ministers, who condemn you and make negative remarks about you? Can you ever forgive them?

Sunday Adelaja. Of course! I forgave them long, long ago. I don’t even hold a grudge against anyone. I understand it. At first I kept silence. What surprised me was something else: not knowing what was going on, how could people not be afraid, take responsibility and repeat what they heard on the internet, read in newspapers, without figuring it out, without even listening to the other side!

As it is written in Matthew, chapter 18, that even if you have something against your brother, go to him, talk, find out. But people didn’t do that and take responsibility. How do people not fear God? They say that I am such a terrible sinner, and at the same time they immediately repeat the ways of sin.

At first this angered me, but then I understood that Jesus Himself said: if any man sees a speck in his brother’s eye, there is an even bigger beam in his own eye. There are still problems there that are not disclosed. So I understood that it’s simply human nature. People who point at you try to show that they are more righteous. It’s a way to hide. I understood that it’s not even my problem that they condemn; it’s their problem. I walk before God, and they also walk before God.

But, honestly speaking, on the other hand, my position is such that many of them are simply naive, they believed what was put in their ears. So they shouldn’t be blamed; maybe they sincerely think that Sunday is a villain and that he needs to be dealt with. But then in the Epistle to the Romans, chapter 14, it says: “He is my servant. Why do you judge another’s servant?” He falls or stands — what is your problem? After all, God has not died, God knows. God knows how to deal with him.

In the 6th chapter of Galatians it is written that even if a brother falls, you who stand, stretch out your hand, strengthen him, so that you yourselves do not fall into an even worse situation.

I understood that people act according to their measure of understanding. They sincerely do what they do, they are zealous.
I also had such situations at one time. This is probably my biggest lesson in life. I also pointed a finger at people. And thanks to this situation, I have repented thousands of times that I condemned other people without knowing the details. This is my biggest lesson, that I considered myself a fighter for justice, and thus probably brought more harm because I didn’t know. And I also reaped: people began to condemn me. Therefore, each of us learns from our own mistakes.

I think that those who judge me, without knowing the details of what happened, will also see. Life is something that knows how to teach. The crisis and the problem are not limited only to Sunday’s case; they come to everyone living on earth. And when they go through their own crises, and when others judge them for something that didn’t happen, then they will remember: I, too, judged.

Host. Well, you speak very convincingly, Pastor Sunday. You know, those are terrifying words when you said, “Who are you to judge another man’s servant?” You place yourself before the judgment of God, so on one hand that sounds very convincing. On the other hand, one must have a serious boldness to put oneself in the position that God will judge me. These words are heard not only by thousands of people right now on live broadcast, but also by God, I believe that. I want to believe that your words sound very convincing.

Let’s talk a little about future projects. Is it true that you are going to build “Jesusland,” something like Disneyland? That information has been circulating, and people ask me about it.

Sunday Adelaja. This is one of those cases where the world is full of rumors, where people swallow everything they read on the internet. I haven’t even heard of this Jesusland. I first heard of it when journalists started “bombarding” me, that I’m building some “Jesusland” and there will be a casino, a bar… I said, what are you even talking about? Only later I found out that some journalist decided to make a name and a career for himself: he came to our church, recorded a video while we were collecting money for the construction of our church building, and says: “Look, Sunday has come up with something again.” The ravings of a madman, excuse me. I didn’t even know how to answer them.

Host. Are you planning to appeal to international courts or organizations regarding the persecution against you personally, attempts to shut down meetings, and to take away the building? What are your future intentions, what will you undertake?

Sunday Adelaja. I think that, in any case, it won’t go without the law. First and foremost, not because of the international community, etc., because we have already seen: the international community was also for Yu. Tymoshenko, yet she is in prison. The international community was also for Lutsenko, but he is in prison. In Ukraine, that doesn’t always work.
I count more on the God who sent me here, the God who found me in a remote village in Africa, the God who appeared to me and gave me a commission and who gave me His word: “The priests of the earth, the kings of the earth will fight against you, and the people of the earth will fight you, but they will not overcome you and will not prevail against you, because I have sent you. Do not be fainthearted. Speak the words I have put in your mouth, and do not be afraid.” There is a God in Heaven, and as long as He lives, my soul will live, and the church “Embassy of God,” which He began, will live.

Host. And if a Ukrainian court issues a verdict on your deportation, are you ready to submit to such a decision?

Sunday Adelaja. Not only is a Ukrainian court incapable of that, no person is capable of that! I say this to you as a person who friends with God and walks with Him. I am God’s ambassador. A human being does not decide my fate — not a court, not the police, not the prosecutor’s office, not presidents. My fate is in the hand of the Living God! He, when it is necessary, will take me from here. If He needs it, then He will send me to another country, or to prison, if necessary. I am not afraid of this, and I am ready to go to prison in Ukraine or elsewhere, to again be His servant there. But if He does not need it, nothing will happen; not a hair from my head will fall without His permission. I am hidden in Him, I am His son, His servant, I friend with Him, I walk with Him, I have gone too far with God to think that anyone can do anything to me.

Host. Pastor Sunday, do you believe in Ukrainian justice?

Sunday Adelaja. No, I do not believe.

Host. (Laughs)

Sunday Adelaja. I hope that God will work a miracle, and that’s all. I believe in God’s justice, not in Ukrainian justice.

Host. Last question. If you had the opportunity to go back and change something in your life, in your ministry, what would it be?

Sunday Adelaja. First, I lived through a very difficult childhood. If I had such an opportunity, I would change that, I would ask God to have mercy. But, on the other hand, thanks to the school I went through in Africa, it probably formed me. I became what I became.

On the other hand, because of the events of recent days, I would not have taught everyone indiscriminately about the principles of financial investing; I would not have taught the whole church. I would have, after all, selected more or less literate people. Even though I did not agitate, did not send anyone to Kings Capital, but perhaps because I taught about investing, they went and invested anyway. I supposed that people were able to sort out the teaching itself that I gave, and would be balanced enough to make sound decisions on their own. I supposed that people would do as I taught. Only now I am convinced that people do only 2-5% of what they are taught. They mostly do what they are persuaded about, or by inertia. Therefore, I would have done it differently.

Host. Thank you, Pastor Sunday, for being with us. I consider our interview a success. Thank you for taking the time to connect with us, and I hope that in the future we will have another meeting: either on the radio or at your invitation in your home, if you remain in Ukraine and truth prevails, whatever it may be. We’ll meet at your place, have tea, and remember all this as a nightmare.

Sunday Adelaja. Yes, I confirm that invitation, if only for the sake of truth.

Host. Thank you for your sincerity and your answers. May God protect you, bless you, and manage this situation. He knows best, after all, who is right and who is wrong.

Sunday Adelaja. Thank you, Yevgeny. I want to say that you also behaved very correctly, you tried very hard to be civilized in this broadcast. I am a person who has already endured thousands of journalists; interviews are constantly taken from me, so I want to pay you a compliment: you did well. Thank you very much.

———————-

Interview with Senior Pastor of the “Embassy of God” Church, Sunday Adelaja
on Russian Radio 7 (Oregon, USA) in the program “I Think So” on September 6, 2012

https://www.godembassy.org/main/smi-o-nas/item/2278-intervyu-pastora-sandeya-adeladzha-na-russkom-radio-7-ssha.html

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